Transscript of President Slobodan Milosevic´s second hearing before the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia on 30 August, 2001

(This is a complete transcript from a recording made on behalf of the International Committee for the Defence of Slobodan Milosevic <ICDSM> - German Section - during the transmission of the hearing to the press room of the Tribunal. Excerpts of the hearing were reported by BBC, Thursday, 30 August, 2001, 13:12 GMT 14:12 UK)

Judge Richard May: Mr Milosevic, if there are any issues you wish to raise in connection with your case or about your physical and mental conditions, then this is your chance to do so.

Slobodan Milosevic: Well, I would like to know first of all, can I speak or are you going to turn off my microphone like first time.

Judge: Mr Milosevic, if you follow the rules, you will be able to speak. If you deal with relevant matters, of course, you will be able to speak.

Milosevic: Well, that is my next question: I would like to make presentation on the illegality of this tribunal.

Judge: You already put a motion in on that topic, are you asking to be able address it to the chamber orally on that topic?

Milosevic: I will, if I cannot make the presentation orally, that can take 40 Minutes, I will give that in writing.

Judge: Why don´t you....why..

Milosevic: My associates will give it to the press, if you don´t allow to me to make it public here.

Judge: If you make it in writing, it can be made public in due course. If you have it in writing it may be more convenient to deal with it in that way.

Milosevic: That is your decision. We have to communicate as civilised persons not with switching off the microphone or to use the force for that, so we can understand each other, what is possible what is not.

So I leave it to you in writing.

Judge: Well....

Milosevic: And if I can comment what I just heard, that was very interesting, what I have heard now, and that is proving, what I said 3rd of July, that this is false indictment

I was indicted 26th of May, 60th day of Nato aggression against Yugoslavia, when I was defending my country, and there are two and a half years from that date, and we just heard, that they have no evidence, that they cannot complete indictment in two and a half years; it is very long time for false indictments to be completed. And what we heard that was proving that. And, of course, having in mind, that I am not recognizing this tribunal, having a clear opinion, which is proved by legal facts, that this tribunal is illegal, I don´t see why I have to defend myself in front of false tribunal from false indictments. That´s another explanation.

And if you allow to me, I would ask some questions to you concerning my position in illegal imprisonment.

Judge: You can´t ask us any questions, but if there are issues you want to raise about that you could do so.

Milosevic: I am by the order of this illegal institution in total isolation, and my question is why am I isolated from my family? Why my family cannot visit me the same way as the others have that possibilities? Why the visits of my family are monitored? Why you need monitoring of my talks with my grandson who is two and a half years old? So why you are making all those acts of massive violation of my rights?

And why am I isolated from the persons who would like to visit me and who I need to talk and to discuss different legal aspects of my position in this illegal imprisonment.

Judge: Just pause there. The rules governing the detention are a matter for the registrar. If they are being applied differently to you to anybody else we will inquire. The difficulty about the lawyers is this, that you have not yet selected or nominated a lawyer, and the rules allow legal visits from a nominated lawyer.

Now, is this your position, that you wish to represent yourself, you do not wish to appoint a lawyer, but you do wish to have access to legal advice, does that summarise your position?

Milosevic: Well, it is clear that it is my right to contact different experts for different aspects of my position in illegal imprisonment.

And in addition to that I have the right to contact lawyers who are dealing with my private affairs in Yugoslavia, I have the right to contact lawyers who are engaged within some international organisations who are supporting me, I have right to communicate with that people. And I cannot understand, how that will be established on a discriminatory basis. As I understand all system of UN is based on the principal of non-discrimination and I am discriminated all the time from the first day I got in.

Judge: The problem is, Mr. Milosevic, that you have not nominated a lawyer, if you nominated a lawyer the matter would be clear. The staff here have to follow the rules, and the person who is allowed legal visits is your nominated lawyer. But you say there are essentially two matters, on which you want advice; you want advice first of all on your position here on these proceedings, you also want advice about your affairs in Yugoslavia. Is that wright?

Milosevic: Well, that..of course and many other things I have in mind, what I have to talk about with the persons who would like to visit me and to contact to me.

Judge: The trial chamber will look into these matters.

Milosevic: The third question is: why am I isolated from the press especially in the circumstances in which every single day there is something printed or broadcast against me as a pure lie.

So you are keeping me in isolation not to communicate to the press even by telephone, which is only mean which is available to me. There are some representatives of the press, may be there are some among them who would like to know the truth. I believe that nobody has to be afraid of the truth. And if there is on one side all that machinery you represent, all that secret services, military machinary, media machinery and everything else and on my side there is only the truth, if you are isolating me from the communications with the press, then it is clear that is completely discriminatory; and you cannot even mention the idea of even-handedness in any kind of that procedure you have in mind.

Judge: Mr. Milosevic...

Milosevic: Please, in my view I am not recognising this tribunal, considering it completely illegitimate and illegal. Well, all those questions about counsels, about representations are out of any question. I saw in newspaper, that...

Judge: Mr Milosevic, there must be and end to this. Just one moment. Let me deal with the matters you raised, the rules of the detention unit provide that there should not be communication with the press. That are the rules and they must be followed. They do not discriminate against you. They are applying to all the accused who are in detention.

As to your point about not recognising the tribunal, you have made it and we have heard it and there is no need to repeat it. Now, is there anything else you want to add?

Milosevic: I understood that we were dealing with that problem of illegality of the tribunal as a problem of jurisdiction. It is clear to any lawyer in the world that question of jurisdiction can be open when juridicial institutions are concerned, and you are not juridical institution. You are political tool of those......

Judge: Mr. Milosevic, You´ve made that point, Mr Milosevic, we are not going to listen to these political arguments. You have your motion on jurisdiction, which you can put in and which we will consider. (Mikrophone of Milosevic turned off) We will consider it. This hearing will be adjourned until Monday the 29th of October.